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Talk:First officer
First Officer/XO? Shouldnt First Officer, and Executive officer/Officer be merged? Its essentialy the same content... AmdrBoltz 23:29, 22 May 2005 (UTC) Worf? Kira? Should Worf not be in the picture as well? He was Sisko's first officer.-- Rebel Strike 18:36, 25 May 2005 (UTC) :I thought Kira was Sisko's first officer? Worf was strategic operations officer. Ottens 18:38, 25 May 2005 (UTC) He was second in command of the Defiant though. And Kira Nerys was Sisko's liaison officer. -- Rebel Strike 18:40, 25 May 2005 (UTC) : Kira was DS9's first officer. Worf was XO of the Defiant, indeed. I'll add his image. Ottens 18:44, 25 May 2005 (UTC) Thanks. Sorry for the bother. -- Rebel Strike 18:44, 25 May 2005 (UTC) :Actually I was looking for one more image to add to make the table somewhat wider. I think it looks better now, so thanks for the suggestion ;) Ottens 18:50, 25 May 2005 (UTC) Great! -- Rebel Strike 18:50, 25 May 2005 (UTC) ::In Kira is the first officer. Looks like she lost that position when Worf came aboard. Tough Little Ship 13:01, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::During Season 4, Worf outranked even Kira on the Defiant. He was probably demoted from that distinction because of his decision to go back for Jadzia in "Change of Heart" since Kira took over command in "Tears of the Prophets."– Enterprise1981 20:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC) Chakotay's Rank in subtitle I know Chakotay's rank is Lt. Commander, but put "Cmdr." in there so the text doesnt widen the image thumb. Ottens 11:03, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC) :I think that will cause more problems than it solves. Since all of the other ones would be accurate, like Lt. Commander Worf, people would start to thin Chakotay was a full commander. Then we would have even more people trying to fix Chakotay's article to say "Commander", citing this as "evidence". Better to leave it the way it is. --OuroborosCobra talk 15:55, 5 July 2006 (UTC) Number One? Shouldn't there be a picture of Number One from "The Cage"? :I think not. Based on the list and the article, this would seem to just include the "famous" first officers. We don't even have a name for "Number One" from "The Cage", so I am guessing that she sadly does not qualify. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC) Distinction between First Officer and Executive Officer In the New Frontier books, Peter David proposes that these are (or more accurately where) two seperate positions, though in most cases they have been merged into one. The idea is that when they are two seperate positions, the XO is the night side (Gamma shift) bridge commander and therefore the authority when the Captain and First Officer would be sleeping. In this sense Data is the XO on the Enterise D & E as he is the Gamma shift bridge commander as we learn in Data's Day. The XO is thereby the third officer. (The difference with Data is that because he does not need sleep, he is able to work both the Alpha shift and the Gamma shift. :Those books have different information than what is mentioned on screen, unfortunately, and are non-canon, so we don't need to put any of that information in the article here. If we wanted to be apologist about it, we could point out that the Excalibur command structure is obviously different from the Enterprise, where things have been shown with the XO and 1stO being the same thing -- again, we don't need to mess up this article with non-canon, just put it in one of the New Frontier articles.. - -Captain M.K.B. 17:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC) The attempt here was not "mess up this article." I am not proposing the New Frontier is Canon, I am simply presenting a logical explanation that these are two different positions. Is it not possible that the XO may have existed in many cases, but was not a central character. Your argument by omission is far from logical. Simply because such is not mentioned, does not make it false, rather it means it is open for interpretation. No where in the canon does it say "The First Officer and the Executive Officer are the same position." Again, not trying to cause problems, only to open your minds to the possibilities. :: The problem isn't with opening one's mind, its with people (like Peter David) seeing problems that need explaining where there are none. In normal Naval parlance, which Star Fleet generally follows, "Executive Officer" and "First Officer" are synonyms. I don't think we need canon evidence for this anymore than we need canon evidence that "Ship's Captain" and "Ship's Commanding officer" are synonyms. --General Grant 22:19, 15 January 2008 (UTC) :::I stopped reading Peter David's Star Trek novels when he made up that "Executive Officer" position (as basically "2nd Officer"). There was no precedent for this in any previous Star Trek works. 22:36, November 12, 2013 (UTC) Chosen or assigned? They made a big issue about Riker being chosen by Picard as his First Officer, but in other situations (ie, Cavit) it appears the person is assigned by Starfleet. Do we know which is considered standard? – AJHayson 06:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC) :This is really late, I know and perhaps even already been answered someplace, but I figured I'd give some sort of an answer to future readers to consider. The way I see it, is most officers on a starship tend to be assigned, in which a vessels commanding officer may or may not override and select an officer of his/her preference (A la Picard chosing Riker and La Forge).--Terran Officer 17:49, 19 January 2008 (UTC) First Officer page a good example? I noticed some images of influential First Officers on that page, and I thought it'd be good if it were done the same to the rest of the ship positions, like or Chief Engineer? -– Tranchera 12:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC) Removed text I removed the following text added in 2006 by an anon: :The executive officer is nominally responsible for the smooth running and organization of the ship or starbase and, in line with equivalent personnel from those ancient services, will often be head of his own (as yet unseen) Executive Department / Division whose officers and crew - primarily with the yeoman designation - will manage many of the day-to-day administrative tasks for the XO. (The Exec. Dept. would, for instance, provide the captain with a personal assistant). If this Executive Department is indeed "yet unseen", then this is pure speculation. -- Renegade54 18:53, 14 August 2007 (UTC) :It sounds like the poster was citing "real life" naval usage, but I can't be sure. Could this be reinserted as Background if it could be authenticated?Capt Christopher Donovan 09:19, 15 August 2007 (UTC) Kira as first officer Kira was just removed from the list of "first officers" and it was changed to state that they were starship only peoples. Having said that, Kira was referred to as the "first officer of Deep Space 9" along the way. So, "first officer" doesn't just apply to ships, it also seems to apply to... space stations. -- Sulfur 21:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC) :Can we please re-add her to the top gallery section? I don't really see any contradiction with Kira carrying both Liaison officer and XO titles. Kind of like Spock with science officer and XO. Likewise, why would space stations NOT have first officers? – Cleanse 00:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC) ::Done. I don't care if individuals have a personal dislike of it, the fact is she was called a "first officer" in canon, as far as I recall this was before the Defiant even entered the series. --OuroborosCobra talk 00:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC) ::I'm right, Sisko called her his first officer in the pilot: ::*SISKO: "Major, when I was ordered here, I requested a Bajoran national as my ''first officer. It made sense. It still does. At least to me. Now, you and I are gonna have to..." ::This is settled. She was the first officer. --OuroborosCobra talk 00:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC) :::Oho. Well, if Sisko called her that, then that settles it. It stays.– [[User:Eyes Only|''Watching...]][[User Talk:Eyes Only| listening...]] 00:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC) First Officer position in Early days Firstly, I'd like to say sorry for the titling of the topic, as I couldn't really think of anything more descriptive. What I was wondering is, has anyone in Star Trek, previous to TNG been shown to be the first officer, and not have some sort of duel duty? IE, T'Pol and Spock being both the first officer and science officer, number one being the first officer and helmsman etc...--Terran Officer 18:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC) : What's wrong with having this at Talk:First officer. Creating new forums on topics that already have articles just creates confusion, and more work for admins when they have to move it there....--Alan del Beccio 18:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC) ::I'm not sure if this is what Terran Officer was thinking, but it was my understanding that messages on the talk pages of an article had to be germaine to the article itself, which his question is not. --31dot 19:43, 19 January 2008 (UTC) :::I agree with 31dot, because the question involves the first officer position doubled with another. Here's another piece of the puzzle: Since it is never revealed in who the first/exec is, it is plausible to assume that either Spock or Mitchell handled both roles. In any event, it is a topic that deserves some exploration and is really broader than the discussion page devoted to First Officer. It seems to be more of a logistical question that should fall under some kind of Starfleet staffing/operations page. --GNDN 20:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC) That is what I meant, I am sorry if this should have gone on a talk page. I was thinking more towards the position being combined with another, and therefor talking about it in general in terms of a duel duty as another position.--Terran Officer 03:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC) ::::"duel duty" - like this? Recent edit Um...the First Officer is the second in command, regardless of whether or not it is a ship. While Kira was the Bajoran Liason Officer, she was also the First Officer. I think in one episode she even said she was the first officer of the Defiant, in which case it is proper to list here here.--31dot 22:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC) Sorry for the duplicate posting- I would support reverting that portion.--31dot 22:16, 15 January 2008 (UTC) Another function of first officer Hi everyone... Didn't the counselor or CMO work with the first officer to work out crew evaluations? I thought this was what Deanna Troi and William T. Riker were working on together during . Anyway, should it be included in the list after "the following functions" as it seems to be a pretty important function? Thanks! --usscantabrian 03:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC) 1st Officer vs. Exec In , the false crew roster listed Kieran MacDuff as First Officer with Riker as "Executive Officer". While this was a false roster, it does imply that there was some difference between the two positions. Unless my memory is faulty, which is always a possibility. =) -- Powers 00:30, 31 August 2009 (UTC) George Kirk Would George Kirk be first officer in both timelines? one time first officers count? Does it count if first officers were only seen in the role once (like Worf in "Gambit Part I" and George Kirk in "Star Trek"? If so, then I think Geordi LaForge should be added, as he appeared to act as first officer in "Descent Part I" before leaving with Picard at the end of the episode. 20:26, September 26, 2013 (UTC) :Serving as first officer is different than being first officer. I don't think "temporary" first officers are listed here, just as we don't list all acting captains at . 31dot (talk) 21:21, September 26, 2013 (UTC)